Ultimate Axiom

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Posts by Ultimate Axiom

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  24

  image on google earth

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is doing the rounds on facebook.

  google earth--reference.

  47.110579 9.227568 ( i copied it and pasted the number in the g-earth search bar ).

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  Ultimate Axiom

  Zeb, I think you need to install Google Earth, you won't get it with a link in a browser.

  No doubt it's a UFO, but I'm puttin my money on a reflection from something in the camera lens.
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  54

  Celebrating Christmas?????

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am just curious, and not judging.

  if you are a christian and you know that december 25th is not jesus' birthday, and may have pagan roots, then why celebrate it?

  i was raised a dub as most of you know, and have learned the ttatt so i know how wrong they are about a lot.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  After I left I had nothing to do with Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, etc, etc for nearly twenty more years. Now I do them all becuase the guilt has gone, and they are a lot of fun.
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  30

  Farts - Blasting the Chair at the KH

  by Simon Morley in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did you try to hold your farts during a meeting or let the slip out?

  .

  i let them go (quitely) and did not give a hell about the reaction..

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  Ultimate Axiom

  I was once sitting a few seats from a sister that had just returned from the ladies room having just changed her baby's nappy (diaper). I let slip a silent one, and when she got wind of it she promptly returned to the ladies to check the nappy. I didn't own up - no way, it was a disgusting one.
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  14

  Powerful questions to DEBUNK the Universal Sovreignty issue

  by Black Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok, we've had some great posts about the universal sovreignty issue over the years.

  i'd like to have this post be about powerful common-sense questions that get right to the core of unraveling it for the nonsense it is.

  when i talk to jw relatives, i'm sticking with the strategy of just posing questions instead of arguing with them.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  1st question, “Can God make a mistake, or be wrong?”

  Dub answer is, “No!”

  2nd question, “Why not?”

  Dub answer is, “Because he can’t, he’s God!” In other words, it’s axiomatic (you might even call it the Ultimate Axiom).

  3rd question, “So, if you, as a tiny speck who has never met God, living on a tiny speck of a planet, orbiting a medium sized sun, in a large galaxy, in a massive universe, know that God, who is bigger than an infinite number of universes, cannot make a mistake or be wrong, do you not think that the angels know that as well?”

  Dub answer is, “Of course they do.”

  Final question then, “So, when Satan first laid down his challenge in the Garden of Eden, do you think that any of the angels might have thought along the lines, ‘Hold on a minute there Jehovah, we think Satan may have a point here.’ To which God replied, ‘Oh dear, I’d better prove he’s wrong then.’ and then preceded to throw his creation into thousands of years of chaos, evil, untold misery and darkness to prove something that didn't need proving - an axiom?”

  And herein lies a paradox. Even a moron knows that you do not have to prove an axiom, in fact, generally speaking you can’t - that’s the whole point of them. So by setting out to prove an axiom, God was making a mistake. If everyone knew he couldn’t be wrong, he didn’t need to prove it, but by doing so, what he actually proved was that he could be wrong and make mistakes.

  But if it is not a mistake, then there is no axiom, which brings us full circle to question 1, which must therefore be answered without assuming it is axiomatic. So how do you go about proving the answer is “No”? – well the method of proof God is supposed to have chosen is to throw his creation into thousands of years of unspeakable cruelty, evil and darkness. But we won’t know if he proves his point until the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ. So until then, you cannot answer the question. If you try, you are, in the words of the WTS, "going beyond the things written".
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  19

  Help add to the list of things that convinced you Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs are flawed, that Governing Body are hypercritical, and deceiving >>>

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sources to your claim will help with proof.... thanks.

  these are a few i looked up and is just a rough note taking list so i didn't edit it and it's just done by basic looking through alot of articles and posts i've see:.

  malawi-mexico contradiction... when a lot of the jehovah's witnesses were tortured and killed because the governing body forbade them to buy a card whereas the mexicans were allowed too.the real reason for the "donation arrangement"... property the wts owns in brooklyn heights alone would generate almost $10,000,000 (yes, ten million) in tax money each year for the city of new york-- that is if they had to pay taxes on it.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  The fist thing that started me doubting back in the 70s was the supposed fulfilment of Mat 24.14. Studying the figures in the Yearbooks I realised that this was far from the case. And as the majority of the world was not getting a witness, how could Jehovah destroy them without the hope of a resurrection? Even today the figures are no better - Less than 1% of JWs preach in 40 countries that contain over half of the world’s population. And over 90% preach in 45 countries that contain less than a third of the world’s population. (Figures taken from the 2012 Yearbook). And even in those countries where 90% of JWs preach, there are many isolated pockets that never hear their message. And when I pointed this out back then, I was told, “If you’re so worried about it, why don’t you go to China and help?” As if that was the answer.
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  48

  TIME TO VENT - What Is Your Least Favorite Thought Terminating Cliche' ?

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  definition: a thought-terminating cliche is a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance.. here's mine: we don't believe that way ..... we are christians in this home..

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  Ultimate Axiom

  Don't you think the GB have considered that already?
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  74

  Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.

  we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.

  some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  That period (70-80) was the only period I really knew, as I joined in 70 and left in 80. I didn’t realise until I found this site that things were different during other periods – and I often wonder how I would have handled the crackdowns knowing the elders as I did back then. I was always pretty outspoken, and was often counselled for not being “upbuilding” when I criticised anything in a Watchtower or a book, but I wasn’t the only one and it did not stop us becoming MSs, although I managed to avoid being appointed an elder as by the time I was old enough I was on the way out.

  I remember a great deal of intellectual freedom, and there was quite a group of us younger brothers who would gather and speculate on all sorts of subjects, and no one that I came across regarded the Watchtower as sacrosanct – we would often take apart the odd article without fear of retribution. On one occasion, after the Sunday WTS, an older sister said to me outside the KH, “that was a very deep Watchtower today, wasn’t it?.” “No”, I said, “that was quite a shallow Watchtower, but written extremely badly to make it incomprehensible”. She gave me a bit of a sideways look, and went on her way – and there were no repercussions. I now realise (through this site) that that particular study article must have been the product of Freddie’s fevered imagination.

  Hey crofty, I was at that assembly in Roker Park. Me and a friend rode all the way there from London on our Honda 50s, sleeping in bus shelters and bivwacks on the way as it took us nearly a week to get there. Those bikes didn’t go more than 40 mph, and mine was completely clapped out when I got back. The first thing I remember on getting to Roker Park was being greeted by a friendly young brother and not being able to understand a single word he said – I’d never met a real live Jordie before then.

  I also remember feeling very disappointed after that assembly, thinking that I wouldn’t be old enough to be an elder before Armageddon – I was only 18 at the time. Oh, and by the way, the 69 assembly at Wembley was an International, I missed that as I’d only started studying in Oct/Nov 69.
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  20

  IN HINDSIGHT.................

  by Black Man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now that i've been away from the cult going on 4 years, one huge absurdity that sticks out in my mind is that we were doing things out of service to an invisible king.

  let me repeat an invisible king, whose only proof that he existed was through a global public relations magazine distribution campaign.

  no visible show of this king's sovreignty, no activity by this king to act on his campaign platform.

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  Ultimate Axiom

  What absurdities stand out to you now that you've left the MADNESS??

  The idea that God allowed his creation to be thrown into chaos, evil and darkness to prove Satan was wrong. What a stupid thing to do, and what a stupid thing to swallow?
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  13

  Curiosity may have made 'historic' discovery on Mars

  by wolfman85 in

  1. social
  2. current

  after reading this news on the link below i wonder, what do you think could have found curiosity on mars?.

  http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_curiosity-may-have-made-historic-discovery-on-mars_1767511 .

  curiosity may have made 'historic' discovery on mars published: wednesday, nov 21, 2012, 13:54 ist .

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  Ultimate Axiom

  ???? Ethos - consuming your post allocation so that you don't have to reply to all those outstanding questions??
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  74

  HELP! I've stepped in it now... mast head change - JW response!

  by NeverKnew in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he's asking if i've read the first page of the new watchtower.. says page 8 admits and exposes the society's mistaken expectations.. says that both mags have been adjusted to reflect the understanding of generation.

  asking if it is my position that witnesses have made claims to be inspired prophets.... and saying if it is, maybe *we* can consider together some examples in the bible of others who have had wrong expectations and have gone ahead of god's timetable and see how god handled that..

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  Ultimate Axiom

  You will notice that this “admission” in the January Watchtower starts by asking the question, “Have Jehovah’s Witnesses given incorrect dates for the end?”, and starts the answer with, “Jehovah’s Witnesses have had wrong expectations …” After that, everything is we do this, or we do that - thus making it a collective admission on behalf of all Jehovah’s Witnesses. This is a typical example of the Watchtower Society shifting the blame from the leadership to the R&F. Had they said something like, “The Watchtower has given wrong expectations etc” then I might have some respect for it, but, unlike didgeridoo, I have absolutely no respect at all for this pusillanimous excuse for an admission that admits nothing from those that need to admit, and has not the slightest hint of an apology.